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Post by momsboy on Jul 21, 2006 14:13:59 GMT -5
SEE??? SEE? That's exactly why I've not gone the bipolar route yet. I always have these doubts that maybe I'm over-reacting and I'd not want him to have that hanging over him if I wasn't absolutely sure that he was bipolar. He's TEN.....maybe alot of it is hormones now, but maybe not, or then again maybe so......ohhhhh I hate this. I hate not knowing what's wrong so I can try to make it better for him! I also hate six years of different therapists and them not giving me better clues as to what I should or should not be seeing...
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Post by Charlie Girl on Jul 21, 2006 14:22:39 GMT -5
That makes at least 3 of us who wonder and worry about making the wrong choices.
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Post by misty on Jul 21, 2006 14:26:08 GMT -5
I think EVERY parent on this site or any other similar site wonders & worries about choices. Thats why we are all here!
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Post by jj on Jul 21, 2006 16:36:11 GMT -5
I don't know about anyone else and I'm sure it is totally different for a parent than an Auntie but I know that my niece should see a Neuro psych that knows bipolar and ADHD so she can get DX'd properly. I know this. BUT does anyone else fear taking that step? I know I am holding back pushing or urging my sister to do this. I mentioned it but never followed up.
Somewhere I just am not sure I trust whatever the outcome will be. I guess if they said, no she just has ADHD I would be relieved but if they said she is bipolar I'm not sure I would believe them even knowing all I know, even knowing I have been looking a bipolar for a long time.
I also know that everyone says it is so important to get the DX as soon as possible. The sooner you know the more it will help the child in the long run. I know this too but still I just have this fear they will load her up with medication and I'll never see my neice again...as she is now, with the good and the bad.
Having bipolar is not the end of the world. I know there are medications that help....yet ...something is stopping me from urging my sister to pursue that DX.
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Post by Charlie Girl on Jul 21, 2006 19:33:26 GMT -5
I can't find a neuropsych anywhere near here. There are some 2 or 3 hours away but then I have to figure out how to pay for them. Some schools can give you a lower price if you let grad students do the eval but they are still prohibitive financially.
I'm not afraid of the correct diagnosis because I want what is best for my son. I have seen bipolar in cousins and I know that untreated ADHD has nothing on untreated bipolar in teenage boys. I am more afraid of the consequences if he has it and isn't diagnosed.
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lisacap
Founding Member
Happy Holiday's
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Post by lisacap on Jul 21, 2006 20:07:48 GMT -5
Ok, I haven't been in here two days, I am still having a hard time with this half butt bi-polar diagonis....I took it upon myself on Wednesday, after having two whole days of my own meltdowns, and decieded to adjust his ADHD meds on my own, I raised his ritalin from 20 regular to 30 in the morning, and gave him the ritalin LA 30 with it, like every other morning,,,,I waited nothing....not outbursts, not tantrums, no meltdowns,,,,2:00 P.M. time for regular 20 Ritalin dose, took it no problem...ventured into the yard to go in the pool, read all 3 of them the riot act, first time I have to yell, anyone's hands go on anyone. any unfair competition's we are IN and you are all in your beds. 3:00 nothing, 4:00 nothing, 5:00 nothing, now in the back of my mind I know it is coming...and I am waiting....6:30, time for clonadine, 7:00 asked , Can I take a shower, 9:00 asked for some benadryl, because he wanted to go to sleep...got by day 1 with my upping the ADHD med...Thursday, woke up happy and compliant, please and thank you came out of his mouth, played with the little ones, and they survived it..did the same meds on Thursday, waited all day again no meltdowns, anger aggresion etc....decieded at 5:00 that I would try and venture out with all 3 of them, again read the riot act... we can go to dinner and do something fun, but first time I have to speak...we come home, made it through dinner, then over to hit a bucket of balls, and get and Ice cream, then a stop at Walmart for some house crap, got home 9:30...asked again to shower, took meds, and went to bed....Friday, I figured today is the day he explodes, lo and behold, we just got home at 8:30...went in the pool this afternoon for awhile, then he had the choice to go to work with dad or come with me to Mikayla's softball practice and welcome back party, chose to come with me, some of his friends from school were there, he had one outburst the whole time, because he got yelled at at the beach for talking back, other than that no problem, now he is in bed, showered AGAIN with out being told, asked for his meds, and hasn't come back out of his room..... Now back to the bi=polar, could we be seeing that when the structure of school ends, and the uncertainty of what the summer may bring, as well as the age and puberty setting in, or happening faster than , there already speeding minds, can handle, that they are tending to go off the deep end quicker? Do the ADHD med's just need to be adjusted because of all of this? I know rebound, I have seen it for years in him, some of it seems to be more late in the afternoon when the med's are wearing off, do I need to just a booster later in the afternoon, to keep and even keel coming down, where I am doing 30 AM, 20 PM @ 2, should I consider adding a 10 @ 4,,,do bring the coming down, not so drastic, and maybe be tolerable for him...I know I am rambling out loud, or actually to my fingers LOL...but I am trying to make sense of all of this, like you all are....but since I haven't been on, I thought you may like to see what I have observered over the past 3 days. I was with a friend of his mother today, and she actually brought up, how her son was being more and more sexually inquisitive....no bi-polar, no ADHD, and will be 12 in December, could the sex stuff just be that these kids are growing up in FAST America, where we at there age were still playing Barbie...just some food for thought.....
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Post by Charlie Girl on Jul 21, 2006 20:14:41 GMT -5
I do agree with you that they are at the age where they are sexually inquisitive. You have a good point there.
Thanks for sharing that about his meds adjustment and how it affected him.
Maybe I really need to get my son on meds for school. I'll talk to the dr about it and maybe try him on some this summer so I know for sure. That way, if he does go into a mania, I'll have him here with me so I can act immediately and his friends from school won't have one more thing to tease him about.
I'm really glad you have such positive results with just upping his dose a bit. I bet he is happier also.
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Post by jj on Jul 21, 2006 23:27:37 GMT -5
Awe geeze. Remember me saying my neice has told me what I suspected were made up (lies) stories about religious dreams. There is more to this than just dreams but I was surfing the net and look what I found:Grandiosity is a symptom of mania or hypomania in bipolar disorder (aka manic depression). In the American Psychiatric Association's Diagnostic and Statistical Manual IV (DSM IV) it is used in combination with several other symptoms to confirm a diagnosis of this disorder. This symptom also occurs in children with early onset bipolar disorder. Roget's II: Thesaurus defines grandiosity as "boastful self-importance or display" and offers the words "ostentation," "pomposity" and "pretension" to further illustrate this definition. In short, it is an exaggerated sense of one's importance, power, knowledge or identity. It often has religious overtones. bipolar.about.com/cs/faqs/f/faq_grandiosity.htmAnd I do want to add that my neices Auntie on her Dad's side has bipolar. The rest of the family aside from my BIL all have problems with alcohol and drugs. Edited to clarify & add...on my BIL's side there is the alcohol/drug abuse. On my side/my sister's side I have a brother who drinks but the rest of us rarely drink. Mother of my neice ADHD, me probably ADD, and a sister who is different.
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Post by Charlie Girl on Jul 22, 2006 0:00:22 GMT -5
Its possible that she is experiencing mania JJ.
There are many kids who are put down so much due to their ADHD that they develop overactive imaginations and talk big trying to get people so see them as valuable or important. Her self esteem could be much lower than you realize. Sometimes they dream their lofty dreams so much that they lose track of what is reality and what is just a day dream. Its a longing to be accepted but not a hallucination.
If I were you, I would try to talk her mom into having her examined by a neuropsych to make sure. I know you love her very much and are going to worry until you know for sure.
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Post by jj on Jul 22, 2006 23:47:36 GMT -5
I know you are right. I know it. Now I just have to try to drum up the courage to bring it up again with my sis. The sooner we know one way or the other the better. I know this.
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Post by jj on Jul 25, 2006 1:28:41 GMT -5
Well, I think I will talk to my sister again about bipolar but I just gave her the book, "The Defiant Child". I want to see if she see's any improvement using some of their techniques and if not then I'll bring up the subject of getting an evaluation with a NP.
I am a bit hesitant because it is costly and really wanted to be more certain a new evaluation is warranted. Some days I say yes and others no. But mostly yes.
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Post by Charlie Girl on Jul 25, 2006 10:00:56 GMT -5
That is a really good idea JJ.
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Post by momsboy on Aug 13, 2006 15:37:54 GMT -5
After going to my son's psychiatrist (all he does is dispense drugs), I said these stims are just not working very well (again). Since he DOES have a dx of "mood disorder", the psychiatrist agree to try a low dose of Depakote, saying it may have to be increased. I know very little about mood stabilizers, but I'm fisin' to find out. The most important thing he told me was to give it to him on a full stomach in the evening. I'm keeping my fingers crossed!
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Post by jj on Aug 13, 2006 15:59:54 GMT -5
I'll hope for you and your son's sake this is the med he needs. I'll be watching for your updates.
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annem
Founding Member
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Post by annem on Aug 28, 2006 12:02:08 GMT -5
Good Luck JJ for your niece and momsboy for your son .. I can understand so well the hesitancy in getting bipolar diagnosed ... and the reluctance of putting on that label unless it really IS bipolar ....
I don't have much experience on bipolar except for people I have known who have it... one of which is my adopted cousin. Apparently her biological mother had bipolar. However, my cousin (who is now in her mid 20's) wasn't diagnosed until she was around 23 ... This was honestly toooooo darned late for a diagnosis (although better late than never) ... but IF ONLY it had been recognised earlier in her life (and to be honest looking back the symptoms were certainly there!) it could possibly have saved both she and her parents from a lot of problems and heartache later on ...
I sure am no expert but I had been thinking for 2-3 years before her official diagnosis that she was showing soooo many clear signs of bipolar ... but I sure do wish for her sake and her parents that it had been properly recognised much earlier...
I hope that if either of the kids mentioned here actually do have bipolar that it gets recognised and treated accordingly ... which of course includes NO STIMS!! .. *BIG HUGS*
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Post by lostmyshoe on Aug 28, 2006 21:48:11 GMT -5
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Post by jj on Aug 28, 2006 22:12:06 GMT -5
Wow, I like that site. I put it in my favorites. I already learned a couple things (not related to bipolar or ADHD). I like it for using as a quick reference. Thanks.
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Post by misty on Aug 28, 2006 22:14:49 GMT -5
I put that link in our link section too. It IS awesome! Thanks Losty!
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Post by bugsmom on Aug 31, 2006 17:38:52 GMT -5
Hi everyone! I just came across this thread, don't know how I missed it before, but I just had to comment. My son started having some of the symptoms you are all taking about last year. Not to the exteme as some of you, but enough that I had to look into the bi-polar connection. Boy it scared me to death. His stims stopped working after years of no problems, he was very moody, crying, meltdowns, nightmares...I could go on. Anyway, I had been asking his psychologist about the possibility of bi-polar and he ruled it out right away, as did his ped. I had a full evaluation by a new psychiatist done and she also ruled out bi-polar right away. Although I was relieved, I still didn't have all my questions answered. I was watching my once happy little guy continue to be miserable. Not all the time, but the mood swings were crazy. Well it all boiled down that he was experiencing tremendous anxiety. He always was a pretty anxious kid, but it just started to get out of control. All the acting out was stemming from an awful school year with a unbelievable cruel teacher. (I wasn't aware of what was really going on at school, he didn't tell me his teacher was so mean to him. I found out from another parent whose kid told them). Anyway, I think as parents we often scare ourselves into thinking the worst possible senerio. I thought for sure my little guy had bi-polar and it just wasn't the case. Not to say that some kids may be, its just that in my case, I read into too much at the time. When our kids are really struggling and we're going nuts we just want answers. I feel for all of you. What I find so interesting about this thread is all our little guys are the same age. I know with my son, I have to really remember that he is about 2 years behind in maturity. I think with their dx of adhd, the immaturity, and the hormones starting to kick in, that we need to take it all in account. Now that we know that my son has terrible anxiety (which runs rampant on my side of the family) we have been dealing with it with meds and I feel like my old son is slowly coming back, but boy has it been a loooooooooong year. I could still say yes to about half of those questions mentioned above, but we've come a long way. Good Luck to all of you and your little ones. Keep the updates comming.
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Post by misty on Aug 31, 2006 20:50:42 GMT -5
bugsmom, I'm so HAPPY you found what works for your son & hes improving!
You bring up a good point about all the boys discussed here being so close in age. I think it shows that yes, its right to worry, but no one can tell what the outcome will be until they've exhausted all areas of testing to get to the bottom of thier childs problem.
Thanks for sharing your story, bugsmom. Keep us updated on how hes doing, ok?
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Post by jj on Sept 28, 2006 0:07:10 GMT -5
My sister just called tonight. She is upset. My niece, as some of you know, may have to have surgery to correct her scoliosis. She would need two rods in her back just like her Mom (my sister) had to have. The curves are just different. Anyway, my sister said my niece is in such a deep depression. She is saying she wishes she had never been born because of this possible surgery. This breaks my heart as I'm sure it does 10x over for my sis. O.k. Here I go questioning things. My niece isn't coming out of this depression. Can something bad trigger the down side of bipolar or am I reading to much into this? I remember as a teen saying "I wish I never was born" when I didn't get my way but my niece is just 12. What do you guys think? Anytime a kid talks about wishing they did not exist, it scares the cr*p out of me.
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leigh
Junior Member
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Post by leigh on Sept 28, 2006 9:23:44 GMT -5
JJ.....I have to say this. My older son has frightened me with "I wish I were dead" comments. My husband, who is cool as a cucumber and NEVER overreacts to anything.....EVER (must be the British blood) said it was only for attention. Well.....duh! I haven't heard my son say this often, and I honestly believe he'd never do anything to himself, but there HAVE been times I seen him either extremely anxious and momentarily VERY upset with himself (angry with or disappointed in himself), and he has said some things that alarmed me such as "I wish I were just dead now." Then he'll cry and say something like, "Am I going to go to you-know-where for that?" (he means Hell). We've gone to therapy before for various things. I don't think we've found the answer. Like you, though, those comments terrify me. And truthfully, medication terrifies me, too.....only because of my son's experience with it over four years. ADHD meds (countless changes over a four year period) played a number on him. I know it's not like that for everyone, though. I'll be interested in hearing what everyone has to say about the "I wish I were dead" question.
I have read through a lot of this thread over the weeks. It touched a nerve. My 10 year old (who has been off meds for a year and a half) was at one time put on bipolar meds in conjunction with the ADHD meds because we were thinking the bipolar meds would help the moodiness we assumed was coming from the ADHD meds (he was very good at school, but would get off the bus as the meds were wearing off....crying and just unable to hold it together if something disappointed him). There were many questions as to whether or not we could be dealing with some form of mild bipolar, but after reading and reading and reading (for months), I really didn't think that was what we were dealing with. Sometimes I wonder, though. My son has some symptoms that MIGHT be considered bipolar-like (mildly, I'm guessing), but nothing like I read about in "The Bipolar Child" or on line or with the doctor. He fit ADHD criteria, though, 100%. Still, there was a COUNSELOR, once, who thought this was bipolar (she decided this from TWO things! BECAUSE I told her he would cry, beg and plead if I said no to something.....and that once when he was six, he kicked his wall while in time out and put a small hole there). SHE'S the one who suggested bipolar meds in conjunction with the ADHD meds, so I went to the doctor with this. The doctor agreed to try bipolar meds with the ADHD meds. The ONLY thing that happened was my son had a majorly bad reaction to the first one (Risperidal) and was unable to walk one morning due to a muscular reaction. TERRIFYING! The next thing didn't really do anything at all. When the doctor suggested anxiety meds with the ADHD meds, Tourrettes meds to help with the tics caused by the stimulants and possibly a sleeping med to help offset THAT issue caused by the ADHD meds, I just said ENOUGH! I took him off meds, and I haven't regretted that at all.
I don't know. All this is a bit overwhelming, and I really don't think we're dealing with bipolar. I don't. BUT......I'm very interested in it because nevertheless, the behavior issues we do have, though often short-lived, can FEEL really big to me when they happen. I also think a big part of the problem is ME. My reaction to things is totally different from my husband's. I tend to overreact and exaggerate, I think. My husband is always pretty laid back and never freaks out over anything. He claims we're a good mix for that. Hmmmm. I suppose that's true.....at times.
Okay, everyone answer JJ's question, because I'd like to hear your thoughts, too! Don't let me hi-jack the topic over to my child. I just wanted to let you know that this is a topic of major interest to me and why.
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Post by misty on Sept 28, 2006 9:39:01 GMT -5
First of all, I've never heard my daughter say she wishes she were dead, not born, etc. Shes either happy or MAD & MOODY, but hardly ever sad.
BUT I'm thinking that during adolescence, thoughts of extreme sadness & wishes of not having been born are fairly normal. NOT as a rule, but as an occassional thought. I can remember saying I'd "Kill myself" or I "wished I was dead" when I was that age & something happened to embarass me in front of my friends. I remember hearing my sister say that too. Neither of us is bipolar, ADHD, etc. We were just girls adjusting to changing hormones.
I would imagine something as devastating to a child as having to have scary surgery would indeed cause thoughts of wishing she didn't exist. I actually thinkhearing your child wishing they didn't exist is MUCH less scary than hearing them say they want to kill themselves. I agrere it bears watching, but it may just be her way of expressing her fears of the surgery & wishing she didn't need to have it.
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lisacap
Founding Member
Happy Holiday's
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Post by lisacap on Sept 28, 2006 15:04:43 GMT -5
I hear it constantly especially when my son doesn't get his way....it always starts with, I hate you, you like everyone but me, I wish I was dead, you would be happy if I wasn't born, he is 11 and has been saying it for about 2 years now, I compeltly freaked out the first time he said, but have no just started ignoring it, it is all for attention, and in his case, he doesn't care what kind of attention he gets, as long as he is the loudest and rambling on and on he in his own little world is happy.
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Post by Charlie Girl on Sept 28, 2006 15:27:16 GMT -5
I would think that facing surgery, not to mention having steel rods in your back whick would prevent you from doing many things a tween does would be enough to make any child depressed.
I would keep an eye on her and talk to her dr about this. He may be able to connect her to another child who has been through it and adjusted, which would alleviate much of the fear.
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leigh
Junior Member
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Post by leigh on Sept 28, 2006 16:11:48 GMT -5
I would think that facing surgery, not to mention having steel rods in your back whick would prevent you from doing many things a tween does would be enough to make any child depressed. I would keep an eye on her and talk to her dr about this. He may be able to connect her to another child who has been through it and adjusted, which would alleviate much of the fear. Yeah. You know, I was thinking about that, too. I think the fear of the unknown can cause her to say all sorts of scary things. I'm guessing she hasn't said this a lot? I'd do all I can to ease her fears. I'm not sure exactly how to do that, but I really would make that a priority. What kind of day did she have today?
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Post by katiekat on Sept 28, 2006 18:56:48 GMT -5
JJ, Im sure the fear of the surgery plays a big part in this. I had to have surgery on my leg when I was 11 and I was terrified. Like your niece my surgery was planned not a sudden emergency and the more time you have to think about it the scarier it gets. I remember not being able to sleep, and crying to my mom, and blaming her for the problem with my leg and just being really angry. I was certain I was going to die in surgery. I dont know much about the bi-polar thing but it could be just fear. Hope things get better for her.
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Post by lostmyshoe on Sept 28, 2006 21:46:47 GMT -5
So sorry I'm late getting in on this. Had a bad migraine today. My daughter is 12 and between going through puberty and having ADD her emotions can be quite raw at times and sometime she says things she doesn't mean. I can't imagine the prospect of surgery on top of being a pre-teen and all the hormones and emotions that go with it. I think the best thing for her is lots of support and the people she loves surrounding her. The other posts had so much good advice and information. I'm sure they were a help to you. I will keep your niece in my prayers. One of my friends from highschool had the surgery too. Her scholiosis was actually disfiguring and the surgery worked great for her. I hope all goes well with your neice too. Prayers and Hugs. Dee
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Post by jj on Sept 28, 2006 23:06:08 GMT -5
Thanks everyone for all for your responses...they help me put a little more perspective on this. It IS A SCARY THING, surgery. And Leigh, this is why I'm in such a unsure state. I don't want to encourage my sister that this could be bipolar just because it may not be. I also worry about ADHD meds if she is bipolar.
I hope I am over reacting but when my sister calls sobbing because her daughter is crying and crying and not coming out of the depression (for days) and saying those kinds of things it just freaks me out considering we are still not sure if it is bipolar or not.
I know when I said that to my Mom, "I wish I were dead" it was done and over with by the next day or within hours. All was forgotten. I know Nikki said that to me and the same thing. Over with in a hour or so.
I'll let you know how she is doing after I give my sis a call tomorrow, if I can get ahold of her.
Thanks again. You guys are great!!
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laurapalmer
Junior Member
Lost, but NOT forgotten!!!!
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Post by laurapalmer on Nov 22, 2006 9:53:10 GMT -5
We have a history of bipolar in my family. Many of my cousins have it. Unfortunately, their mother is dead and they didn't live with their father so I have no one to ask. My son really is going to need to be diagnosed and treated for school this year and I want to make sure the ADHD assessments are right before I allow him to go on stims. How does bipolar look in a child who is 9, 10 or 11 years old? My son goes through stages of thinking he is better than the rest of the world, smarter, more capapble, etc. He gets angry easily and verbally mean but doesn't get physically mean any more. He will have a couple of months of being studious, sweet, well mannered, and then a few months of being the brat. He can turn from being a sweetie to being rude and disruptive, hateful even, then back to being sweet withing hours, sometimes minutes. He doesn't show the mean parts of himself at school. They see him primarily as ADD inattentive, but at home he can be totally different. I also think he is rude to other kids at school and the teachers just don't notice or won't admit it to me. What does anyone who has experience with children of that age think? Thanks. Same thing here with my 9yr old daughter.........It runs in my hubby's side of the family & she was recently diagnosed with mood disorder.......I asked the psychiatrist if it was like my MIL's sickness & he said YES.....I was overwhelmed over it, but we are starting psycotherapy on the 30th..... My daughter acts just like your son........she's a pure angel at school & does not act out, only at home where she is "safe" I guess.
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