Afraid SpEd isn't preparing son for years to come.

[leigh]

Quick history for those of you who don't know:

My 5th grade son was put in "small group" classes for every subject starting in 4th grade. This was a tough decision for me, but it was clear he could no longer function well in regular size classes after being taken off ADHD meds due to four years of SEVERE adverse reactions to them (13 med changes in 4 years!). Tourettes symptoms, also (motor and vocal tics), were coming out full-force as well due to the stimulants, so I finally just said "enough!" It didn't take long after going without ADHD meds, though, to realize he simply could not focus and would surely fail his classes. So "small group" (special ed) was the answer to this issue. There are only between 4 and 7 kids in his classes.


This is why I'm concerned: There is very little homework in comparison to his friends in "general classes." You wouldn't believe the difference. His tests are easy (just the basics in comparison to his friends' tests). He rarely has to do special projects. Study guides are always provided. The other classes are mostly expected to take their own notes for tests. Opportunities for extra credit are given if he is struggling with his grades.................you see where I'm going?

We are in probably the most academically challenging public school system in our state. I'm not exaggerating. Our school has won serious academic awards, and the middle school he'll go to next year has an equally impressive reputation, and although I am SO thankful that the last couple of years have been far easier for me as a mom (fewer fights about homework, no tedious projects, better grades and way less stress all around), I can't help but worry about whether or not he will be prepared for is later academic years. I've discussed this with teachers before, but I never hear any of them show the same concerns. I'm pretty sure he will be in small group next year, too, in middle school. I don't know how happy I am about that, but at the same time, I fear "general ed classes" for him based on what I already know about the academic expectations there.

Do any of you have any thoughts? They do have general ed classes with two teachers in the room, but my son's inability to focus has been so bad, that after his current school let him try this out for a few days, they insisted it was far too overwhelming.

So I hate the idea of keeping him in small group/SpEd for middle school, but at the same time I don't know what else to do. If I put him in general ed classes (like I would like him to be in), he'd go from very little daily homework, easy tests, one on one help and no major reports and projects to 2 or more hours of homework a day, TONS of book reports and special projects and very high expectations.

BTW.....there are no social issues at all. He has tons of friends and gets along very well with others and stays out of trouble.

A friend of mine recently asked me if I was afraid this IEP in "small group" was setting him up for low expectations, a slack attitude and maybe even later......difficulty getting in or doing well in college. Yes.....it concerns me.....even if it is years away.


Sorry so long. Do any of you have any thoughts on this?

[Charlie Girl]

Have you suggested he have it in his IEP that he get the same education as the kids in the regular classes even though he is in small group?

I had always assumed that small group meant the same basic curriculum and expectations but that the teacher was more available to work with each kid individually, thus helping them learn to control their focus and help them with reports, etc so that they could transition into mainstream eventually and be able to handle it better.

I assume your son is getting a very basic education which focuses on making sure he has all the building blocks in place academically. That is a good thing, but when is he going to learn everything else?

I'd be concerned also. I would definitely see if I could get something in his IEP that would push him a little harder now so it isn't quite the shock later.

[lillian]

Leigh,

I know we've discussed this before, but your son and mine are in very similar school districts, and I can tell you that his seventh-grade homework has been brutal--averaging at least two hours a night. I say "averaging" because some nights there's not much, whereas other nights there are four hours and weekends of eight hours. Going through this year with my son, I agree with you that if your son is not getting any homework or projects, then he is not being adequately prepared for the years to come, and the fact that you see this and want to confront the issue is a good thing.

I also know from previous discussions we have had that your son's school is very supportive and has worked well with you. I, therefore, am wondering if you asked for more homework, would they give it to him? Let's say, there is a science project all the 5th graders are doing, if you asked for your son to be given the same project, would the teachers be O.K. with doing that? I know the resource classrooms here have "homework upon the request of parents" on the teachers' websites, so if a parent wants the child to have more homework, the teacher will provide it. If you slowly increased his homework load, then that might better prepare him for the years to come.

Another possibility is to have your son slowly integrated back into regular education, by having him go to a regular general ed class or the co-teaching class for a subject that is a really strong strength of his--science, social studies, L.A., or math. Is this a possibility?

[leigh]

Thank you, CharlieGirl and Lillan. Your thoughts and advice are sooooo appreciated. Yes, the SpEd (small group) classes have the same curriculum, but it's just seriously watered down in my opinion. I have a close friend who is the mother of my son's best friend. Her son is also ADHD, but he' s a major perfectionist, on meds and an A/B student in general ed. She is always shocked when I tell her about my son's classwork and homework assignments.

I have a number of friends with 5th grade kids at this school and they ALL say that their kids are doing homework 2 - 4 hours a day Monday through Thursday, Now that's excessive, in my opinion, but when my son goes some days with maybe 10 minutes of work to do at home, it concerns me. You know this, though, from my previous post.

Yes......I will talk to my son's teachers about more assignments. I think something that really made me worry about this was a recent 5th grade project. The ENTIRE 5th grade went on a 3 day field trip last month to study wildlife, marine biology, etc.......it was an amazing trip! All kids were told to bring disposable cameras and journals. They had to take notes on all they did and document everything in picture. All of my son's friends have been frantically working on their projects (which are due today). Some of the teachers are only requesting photo journals, some are expecting photo journals and art work. My son's best friend spent NINE hours preparing a photo journal AND a 20 paragraph report.....typed. His mom says it has overwhelmed the entire family.....the stress. Anyway, my son has had NOTHING assigned to him for this. He says his SpEd teacher says it's not necessary.....and I guess in the scheme of things, it really isn't....but boy, does it make me feel guilty when I talk to my friends who have been dealing with their crying kids because their assignments were so difficult.

Forgive the long paragraph.

Thank you, again. Lillian, you have such a great memory of our previous "talks." I do think I'll get in touch with the teachers and his case manager this week. This will go over like a lead balloon with my son. LOL!!!

I'll let you know what happens.

[misty]

This sounds similar to my daughters situation. Shes in learning support for about half the day. She hardly ever has homework & she's in 6th grade! It is in her IEP that they are to increase her workload by tiny increments, but I haven't really seen that happening. Now the portion of the day she's with her regular class, she has the same work as they do. BUT her regular teacher doesn't like to give homework, so theres not much there either. I fear what will happen when she goes to the middle school next year. I have requested a meeting with her Learning Support teacher to go over some of my concerns. Luckily, he's the type of teacher who will bend over backwards to help...I just need to wait until he's back...his wife just had a baby & he was on a 2 week leave of absence.

[leigh]

misty said:

This sounds similar to my daughters situation. Shes in learning support for about half the day. She hardly ever has homework & she's in 6th grade! It is in her IEP that they are to increase her workload by tiny increments, but I haven't really seen that happening. Now the portion of the day she's with her regular class, she has the same work as they do. BUT her regular teacher doesn't like to give homework, so theres not much there either. I fear what will happen when she goes to the middle school next year. I have requested a meeting with her Learning Support teacher to go over some of my concerns. Luckily, he's the type of teacher who will bend over backwards to help...I just need to wait until he's back...his wife just had a baby & he was on a 2 week leave of absence.

So your school system includes 6th grade in elementary school? That's the way it was when I was in school, but middle school starts in 6th grade here, and our school system seems to be training these kids for Ivy League universities! I would have failed out of school if I had been in schools like the ones here. No kidding.

[misty]

leigh said:

So your school system includes 6th grade in elementary school? That's the way it was when I was in school, but middle school starts in 6th grade here, and our school system seems to be training these kids for Ivy League universities! I would have failed out of school if I had been in schools like the ones here. No kidding.

Our school district has K-3 in Elementary, 4-6 in Intermediate, 7-8 in Middle school, 9-10 in Jr High, 11-12 in High School.

When I was in school (In the same district) elementary was K-6, 7-8 was Jr High & 9-12 was HS.

[lillian]

I agree, Leigh! I can't imagine doing the amount of homework my son does in 7th grade. Right now, we're studying for final exams!!! Good grief! Finals in 7th grade??? And they count 10% of his semester grade. Whatever.

Here, our schools are K-4 for elementary, 5-6 for intermediate, 7-8 for junior high, 9 for high school then 10-12 or 9-12 for high school (depending where you live, and my son is zoned to the 9-12).

[leigh]

I had no idea there was such a variation in the way grades are grouped together in various school districts.


I'll share a story about a friend of mine. This will make you cringe. Her son is ADHD and a couple of years older than mine. He's 12. Anyway....he was in small group classes, like my son, in elementary school, but hated small group in the middle school here (had to do with the stigma). The mom had him put back in a large class (I think there's an extra teacher, though). Anyway, a few weeks back, they had this HUGE project due that involved research, typing and drawing something. He was to follow the directions exactly but forgot to COLOR his drawing. He got 50 points taken off for that! So his mom freaked out. His cumulative grade in class went from the low 80's to the mid 60's because of that one mistake. Okay..........so two weeks ago, this same 7th grader had to do a report on China using two or three books that were WAY over his head. The poor kid was completely overwhelmed. The mom was so worried FOR him that she read the books herself and spent 12 hours writing the report on her own!! OMG! Guess what........the teacher called her to say she knew her son didn't write the report. My friend admitted to it all. Fortunately, they are allowing the child to do the report over (this time alone), but jeeeeez! My point, I guess, is that the stress in school now can push anyone, even a mom, over the edge and straight into making a very poor decision out of desperation for her child. She cried really hard over this and was so angry and embarrassed.

[alan]

OK since we are fesing up!
Last month my daughter came back with project work and was to write like a news paper from history, but was really not much into doing it. So as bad as this sounds i done a paper as well but stained it with tea to make it yellow and dried it of in the oven and then wrote some stuff. Once she saw me doing this she was soo into it and now plays it like a game .....

She got a high mark for her project. Now although i didnt do the homework with her (i spent three hours getting her to do it) I still kinda feel guilty the way i prompted her??

[jj]

alan said:

OK since we are fesing up!
Last month my daughter came back with project work and was to write like a news paper from history, but was really not much into doing it. So as bad as this sounds i done a paper as well but stained it with tea to make it yellow and dried it of in the oven and then wrote some stuff. Once she saw me doing this she was soo into it and now plays it like a game .....

She got a high mark for her project. Now although i didnt do the homework with her (i spent three hours getting her to do it) I still kinda feel guilty the way i prompted her??

Heck no! Don't even feel guilty. In fact I think there may be a bunch of parents snagging your idea. As long as they are doing the actual work - any way to get them there is fair in my eyes. I'm actually pretty impressed.

[alan]

Got to admit it is cool. Last week she played with my four year old son (ADHD)making a pirate map and it was sooo cool. I think pirates are the big thing just now that or the guy Jonny Depp not to sure ,although my son had just watched the GOONIES film with all the pirates in there .
So as to get in on the action i made a map of the whole house and hid the chocolate coins you get around the house. Man did they giggle and cackle as they looked for them ..

[puzzled]

There are 2 school districts in our county. In one district, there are 2 elementary schools that feed into the middle and high school. One of them goes from K-6 and the other goes from K-5, and then both of those feed into a middle school that is attached to the elementary school that goes K-5, so it starts at grade 6. This means that some kids are in the new grouping for a whole year before the ones from the other district come over...

Then the other district has 2 elementary schools that go from K-6 and a high schoo/middle school (all one building) that goes from 7-12.

This county only has 20,000-25,000 residents total.

We are fortuanate that class size rarely goes over 20 or so children per class. The principal told me that my son's class is the largest in the elementary and there are 91 in it. There are 4 5th grade teachers, so they are split into 4 groups. They do have to switch classrooms/teachers for every class starting in 4th grade, so they have to remember to bring all the supplies to each class, VERY difficult for an ADHD child!