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504
Oct 29, 2006 10:52:38 GMT -5
Post by katiekat on Oct 29, 2006 10:52:38 GMT -5
Can someone explain to me in layman's terms about a 504? I know basically what it is but how do I go about getting a 504 for my child? Can I request it or does it have to be deemed necessary by the school? If your child has one do you get to make certain requests for your child like an IEP?
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504
Oct 29, 2006 11:56:16 GMT -5
Post by misty on Oct 29, 2006 11:56:16 GMT -5
504 is a civil rights law, designed to protect the rights of "disabled" persons. All children covered under special education are covered under 504; however, 504 also covers people who do not qualify for special education because their "disability" is not listed in the special education criteria. This is true for ADHD in most states. ADHD children are covered under 504, not special education. When a kid is listed as 504, modifications are made by a 504 committee. This committee may or may not write an IEP. 504 is much looser than special education. The 504 committees are made up of administrators and teachers at the school. How well they implement the modifications varies. Not only that, but 504 modifications vary from district to district, within a state. For your child to get 504 modifications, s/he has to demonstrate a need, i.e. failing. Ideally, what should happen, is that a 504 committee should monitor the child and make sure the child is academically successful. If the child is not, the 504 committee should write modifications to help the child be successful. A 504 Plan is a document under Section 504 of the Rehabilitation Act of 1973 that specifies the "reasonable accommodations" that schools will provide to help children with disabilities, including children with ADHD, achieve a "meaningful equal opportunity" to benefit from their education. Eligibility for Section 504 is based on the existence of an identified physical or mental condition that substantially limits a major life activity. Children with disablities are eligible when their disability is substantially limiting their ability to learn. Heres a site that explains everything: www.sandiegoadhd.org/School/504Plan.html#get504
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504
Oct 29, 2006 11:58:44 GMT -5
Post by misty on Oct 29, 2006 11:58:44 GMT -5
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504
Oct 29, 2006 12:37:58 GMT -5
Post by lillian on Oct 29, 2006 12:37:58 GMT -5
Ideally, what should happen is that a child should receive a complete educational/psychological evaluation by the school before deciding on a 504 or an IEP. The reason for this is that the testing should indicate whether a 504 or an IEP is called for. With a 504, the child will be expected to work on level, with "accommodations" to the curriculum that allow the child to access the curriculum on level. With an IEP, the child must be taught with specialized instruction and/or a specialized curriculum, and these are known as "modifications." Only a complete educational/psychological evaluation can determine which your child needs--a 504 or an IEP.
If your child needs a 504, then your child can receive accommodations. These can include such things as a keyboard for writing, books on tape for reading, hard copies of notes, additional time or a small-group setting for test taking, etc. These accommodations allow your child to work on level, and s/he will be expected to complete the same work, as the rest of the students, and be taught in the same environment.
If your child needs an IEP, then your child needs to be taught off level, such as receiving instruction grade levels below level in a particular subject, and/or your child needs to receive specialized instruction, such as a resource classroom for all or part of the day or one-on-one tutoring in a particular subject for a certain amount of time weekly. These are considered modifications, for the curriculum and/or the instruction is being modified (changed) to reach your child.
All children who have IEP's, however, also can receive accommodations, in addition to their modifications, for IEP's are covered under Special Education, and all Special Education students are covered by 504. The same is not true for students who just have 504's because 504's are not covered under Special Education. In other words, the 504 student can just receive accommodations, but the Special Education student can receive accommodations and modifications.
I KNOW this is confusing, so I will use my son as an example. He is in general education with an IEP for a Disorder of Written Expression. He is, in fact, a remediated dyslexic. Some of the things written in his IEP are:
Textbooks on tape (accommodation--he reads on level, now, but he still reads slowly, so he is given his on-level texts on tape)
Will take the state test in writing on a 4th grade level (modification--he's in 7th grade, but he writes on a 4th grade level, so he will be tested on a 4th grade level, not a 7th. Because this is off level, it is a modification.)
Will type his essay on the state writing test (accommodation--allowed in my state, for all children covered under 504 who have difficulties with handwriting)
Receives 40 minutes of one-on-one tutoring in writing per week (modification--this is specialized instruction, for it is designed to help him acquire the fourth-grade skills he needs to acquire, not the seventh-grade skills the other students need to acquire, and it is one-on-one)
Can use a scribe to dictate and edit any papers over one paragraph (modification--he is unable to write or edit a paper over one paragraph on level, so he does this, instead, therefore having the same cognitive exercise as the rest of the students, just without the writing)
Does that help explain the difference between the two? Very, very confusing, I will say. It took me a loooooong time to get this. I still have difficulties with certain things, like a calculator. Is that an accommodation or a modification? In my state, I BELIEVE it is considered an accommodation, as long as it is not used on tests. When it is used on tests, it becomes a modification. There are all kinds of tricky ones like this, though, and I have found that private evaluators are the best at evaluating children but have little understanding what the differences between 504 and Special Education are.
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504
Oct 29, 2006 13:04:22 GMT -5
Post by lillian on Oct 29, 2006 13:04:22 GMT -5
And to add...ADHD. A child with ADHD can have either a 504 or an IEP, depending on the child's needs. If all the child needs are accommodations to be successful in the classroom, the child should just have a 504. This is the ADHD child, who will be able to stay in the general education classroom and do well with accommodations. If the child cannot stay in the regular classroom because it is too distracting and must have a smaller learning environment or more one-on-one attention and instruction to be able to function on level, then the child will need a resource classroom, a co-teaching classroom, or an aide. To be assured any of these, the child will have to have an IEP.
ADHD is covered under Other Health Impaired (OHI) and Emotionally/Behaviorally Disturbed (EBD) in Special Education. A parent should fight like a dog to get OHI!!! Schools sadly seem to be much more apt to use EBD than OHI, and I, personally, think this is a scare tactic, for EBD is the heaviest of the Special Education labels to carry. Parents will back off and say, "Forget it. We'll just do a 504."
Many of the ADHD kids in resource classroooms, in co-teaching classrooms, or with one-on-one aides, which are becoming more and more difficult to get for your child, are working on the same level as their peers. These Special Education ADHD kids have a Special Education label because of their need for specialized instruction (resource, co-teaching, or an aide), not for modifications to the curriculum. I have heard of some ADHD kids having OHI's and being in general ed working on the same curriculum as everyone else in the classroom, with schools refusing to give specialized instruction. I don't get this AT ALL! Parents need to know that their children are given the right to specialized instruction with an IEP!
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504
Oct 30, 2006 9:26:11 GMT -5
Post by Charlie Girl on Oct 30, 2006 9:26:11 GMT -5
I want to point out that although 504 doesn't cover a change in what curriculum is taught, it can cover such things as the child would be required to do only every other question on homework, or other changes that modify the amount of work he must produce so he is concentrating on what he is learning rather than what he has to get through.
Its main goal is to catch the students who would slip through the cracks and end up in special ed or just doing poorly, not because of a severe disability but because they need just that little bit more help meeting the same standards in the same time frame as the other kids.
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504
Oct 30, 2006 10:14:48 GMT -5
Post by unicorn-tiff'smom on Oct 30, 2006 10:14:48 GMT -5
Yes, lillian it is confusing. If I give you some examples of things they are doing for Tiff, can you tell me if she needs a 504. ithink this is what it is leaning towards.
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504
Oct 30, 2006 10:19:47 GMT -5
Post by lillian on Oct 30, 2006 10:19:47 GMT -5
Whether or not a child can get reduced assignments under 504 depends a great deal on the school and the subject matter. Like the calculator, reduced assignments is a gray line between a 504 and an IEP. Where it is most likely to be used in a 504 is math. Instead of the child having to do all the math problems on page 106, the child will only do the even numbered problems. That is a common accommodation under 504, and most schools will allow it, for the child is still working on level. However, reducing assignments in writing is different. If a seventh-grade child is expected to only write a one paragraph paper instead of a three paragraph paper, but the state standards for seventh-grade writing say that the child must demonstrate his ability to write a three-paragraph paper, then the child is not working on level, and reducing the assignment becomes a modification. It's very tricky, and Special Education attorneys have a heyday with it!!
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504
Oct 30, 2006 10:24:04 GMT -5
Post by unicorn-tiff'smom on Oct 30, 2006 10:24:04 GMT -5
In several meetings with teachers, input from Reading tutor, school visitations with Reading Spealist and Instructional Support teacher, this is what has come out of them.
> Tiff is being pulled out of class about 3 times a week to see the reading Specialist. She sent home some short stories and questions for comprehension to do at home. > The math teacher (after I told her of something that worked at home) is spending time during tests with Tiff. In a nutshell, Tiff is to do what she can do. Then the ones that are worded so it is confusing for her the teacher is rewording out loud for her to help her during the test. She knows the material, but too many words and she is confused. > The reading teacher is going to try the same technique as above with comprehension tests. > The Instructional Support teacher made a notebook for Tiff with all subjects in 1 binder. That way she doesn't forget homework or notebooks. > They have always been willing to meet with me whenever I request a meeting. > At the beginning of year, the Speech teacher meets with Tiff to see how she is coming with 2 sounds that make her sound like she has a NY accent.
So, my concern is that, it is great that they are so very helpful now, but we only have notes from meetings in writing, so that they could stop at anytime.
Are these 504 accomodations and should I request a 504 be put in place?
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504
Oct 30, 2006 10:58:31 GMT -5
Post by lillian on Oct 30, 2006 10:58:31 GMT -5
Under NCLB, the schools are supposed to "find" children who need interventions and additional help and provide these children with support services. This sounds like what is being done with Tiff. Tiff has been "found."
Personally, I am a big fan of what is being done with Tiff. Four years ago, I approached my son's teachers and requested that they give him extra time on his math minutes, put a cursive alphabet chart on his desk, not take off for his forming his letters incorrectly, and ask him his spelling words orally (I thought his failing spelling grades were a reflection of his not being able to remember the alphabet). They refused on all counts, saying if they did these things for him, then they would have to do them for all the children in the classroom. If I wanted anything out of the norm, he would have to have a 504 or an IEP. They then got into this long monologue about writing being developmental, and he would eventually get it, but if they "cut him slack" he wouldn't try. Today, my son has a very severe writing disability. He's in seventh grade, trying to ACQUIRE fourth-grade skills. He has not proven he can write on a fourth-grade level. And I firmly believe, some of his disability can be attributed to his teachers' attitudes.
IMHO, I would let them continue doing what they are doing with Tiff. Yes, they are giving her a 504 without actually giving her one, BUT that's O.K., if she can come up to level with what they are doing. You must document what they are doing, however, so if she is unable to come up to level, and you think she is going to need modifications, which is an IEP, you will have these accommodations and interventions the school is doing on record. It will be very important because she's getting some serious help, particularly by being given a reading SPECIALIST, and if she does not respond to this intervention, that says a lot.
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504
Oct 30, 2006 11:37:43 GMT -5
Post by lillian on Oct 30, 2006 11:37:43 GMT -5
I want to explain something about reading specialists under 504's. In many states, having a child see a reading specialist often is covered under 504, instead of Special Education, if it is deemed that this is all the child needs to come up to level in reading. The child is given accommodations, like on-level texts on tape, and sees a reading specialist for a certain amount of time weekly. The reason many states will do this under 504 and not an IEP is because good reading specialists can do wonders, in a relatively short period of time. My son saw one privately for eight months, and his 6th grade teacher was studying to become one, so she used everything she was learning in grad school to help my son. Both the private specialist and the teacher helped my son tremendously! OHHHHHH, how I wish the school had provided him with one, as soon as it was recognized his reading was below level. But, they brought in a parent volunteer to read first-grade level books with him, instead. He was in third grade. When I saw a book he brought home that said, "This is my elbow," turn the page, "My elbow bends," turn the page, I wrote to his teachers and said, "No thanks. We'll help him at home."
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504
Oct 30, 2006 11:39:09 GMT -5
Post by Charlie Girl on Oct 30, 2006 11:39:09 GMT -5
I had to take the district head of special ed to a meeting with me to get my son a 504 as the school was insisting I have an official diagnosis of a learning disability before they would give him one. Its a grey area but I prevailed. Some of the accoms my son had in his 504 were that he only had to do 1/2 of the math work as long as he did it right. (He couldn't just do a slap up job, although that was what his teacher and I agreed on and wasn't in the 504. ) He also could take any test that didn't grade cursive writing as part of the test using denealian (print), he didn't have to do all reports and papers in cursive but did have to do a certain amount. I moved and one of the people who helped me move tossed the papers I had saved from that school so I can't be more detailed at this point. The school my son is in now has gotten him remedial help and tutoring without my needing to go for a 504. I would prefer the 504 but the help he is getting is actually better than he recieved with a 504 in the other school. I don't think he would have really gotten more if I had fought for one so I didn't. As long as Tiff is getting the help she needs, I agree with Lillian. There really isn't much more you could ask for and expect to recieve with a 504, and this way you and the teacher have more flexibility to switch gears if something isn't working.
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504
Oct 30, 2006 11:53:26 GMT -5
Post by unicorn-tiff'smom on Oct 30, 2006 11:53:26 GMT -5
Thanks lillian and CG. So far each year, I have been lucky in that the teachers will do these things that I ask and that her Reading Tutor (who is a reading specialist asks).
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504
Oct 30, 2006 11:59:39 GMT -5
Post by lillian on Oct 30, 2006 11:59:39 GMT -5
Whoa, horsey! What do you mean "each year"? How long has she had a reading specialist?
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504
Oct 30, 2006 12:05:33 GMT -5
Post by misty on Oct 30, 2006 12:05:33 GMT -5
When Shannon was in private school (Luthern school through 4th grade)..... the school had her tested because the teacher suspected an LD.....she had no IEP or 504. From 2nd grade (when she was tested) through 4th grade they gave her speech therapy, math tutoring & a reading specialist. Only when it became clear that she needed even more help did we decide to move her to public, where we got her an IEP in place, but I was really lucky her first school gave what help they could...private schools dont HAVE to. And the gave it for 2 and a half years. Now that she has the IEP & has modifications as well as the Learning Support Center & LD teachers at her disposal, shes doing even better!
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504
Oct 30, 2006 12:39:44 GMT -5
Post by unicorn-tiff'smom on Oct 30, 2006 12:39:44 GMT -5
Lillian - In June 2006 it had been a year, since we started with the reading tutor. It was once a week until last January, when we went to every other week. We haven't had her formally come to the house since September. She took a professorship and hasn't had the time to devote to her tutoring students and her new career. But I still e-mail her Tiffany's spelling list each week. She has written up information for the teachers this year and for the Reading Specialist and IST teacher as follow up information. She has given me pointers on trying to get Tiff's comprehension of what she reads to improve. I am getting ready to send her a copy of the notes from the meeting last week.
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504
Oct 30, 2006 13:03:54 GMT -5
Post by katiekat on Oct 30, 2006 13:03:54 GMT -5
Boy this is confusing-but you all have alot of great info. I can tell Im going to have a hard time getting anywhere with Sean's teacher this year. She still hasnt even sent home any type of communication log. I e-mailed her CG, however no response at this point. Am I getting this right? ADHD-504 but throw in LD(s) and you need an IEP?
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504
Oct 30, 2006 13:14:01 GMT -5
Post by Charlie Girl on Oct 30, 2006 13:14:01 GMT -5
Boy this is confusing-but you all have alot of great info. I can tell Im going to have a hard time getting anywhere with Sean's teacher this year. She still hasnt even sent home any type of communication log. I e-mailed her CG, however no response at this point. Am I getting this right? ADHD-504 but throw in LD(s) and you need an IEP? You're basically right but you can get a 504 for an ld if it isn't severe and you can get an IEP under OHI if the ADHD is severe. Sometimes it seems severe but when basic help is given you see great improvement. It comes down to the child and what the school is willing to do in a 504. An IEP also has better teeth to it. Its much easier for the school to get out of following a 504 than an IEP. There are much stronger safe guards under IDEA for IEPs. If my child were getting help either through 504 or the same things he would get under a 504 and not progressing closer to grade level, I would fight for an IEP. If you see where he is improving rapidly enough to get up to grade level within a reasonable amount of time (depending on how far behind he is), stay with what you have.
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504
Oct 30, 2006 13:18:29 GMT -5
Post by misty on Oct 30, 2006 13:18:29 GMT -5
My daughters IEP is for her 2 LD's but they included the secondary DX of OHI JUST in case the LDs get addressed well, so she can still have the IEP.
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504
Oct 30, 2006 13:35:22 GMT -5
Post by Charlie Girl on Oct 30, 2006 13:35:22 GMT -5
Katiekat, I think its time you sent the teacher another e-mail and cc'd a copy to the principal.
Very nicely mention that you are still waiting to hear from her concerning the issues you mentioned and you are approaching her again because you want to make sure she got the message.
If you can set your e-mail to verify that she recieved it, I would do that and make a note that it went through and you recieved confirmation.
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504
Oct 30, 2006 14:49:13 GMT -5
Post by lillian on Oct 30, 2006 14:49:13 GMT -5
Lillian - In June 2006 it had been a year, since we started with the reading tutor. It was once a week until last January, when we went to every other week. We haven't had her formally come to the house since September. She took a professorship and hasn't had the time to devote to her tutoring students and her new career. But I still e-mail her Tiffany's spelling list each week. She has written up information for the teachers this year and for the Reading Specialist and IST teacher as follow up information. She has given me pointers on trying to get Tiff's comprehension of what she reads to improve. I am getting ready to send her a copy of the notes from the meeting last week.
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504
Oct 30, 2006 14:51:48 GMT -5
Post by lillian on Oct 30, 2006 14:51:48 GMT -5
Laura,
Are you saying that Tiff has had a private reading specialist and a reading specialist at school? I'm confused. How many years total, both at school and at home, has she had reading intervention with a reading specialist? And what's the problem with her spelling? This is beginning to sound more and more like a disability. Have you had her privately tested for dyslexia and other language disorders?
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504
Oct 30, 2006 15:25:11 GMT -5
Post by unicorn-tiff'smom on Oct 30, 2006 15:25:11 GMT -5
At the end of 1st grade it was suggested to me to get a tutor for reading. I had her tested for dsylexia, etc, when it was diagnosed with ADHD. Her tutor tested her very completely and started a phoncs, decoding, spelling, reading and retelling program that lasted all through second grade. Tiff's second grade teacher would e-mail the spelling list to the tutor every week so she could prepare a lesson around what they were learning in class. Tiff does very well in spelling. I still send her the lists each week now that Tiff is in third grade, just so she can follow what is being taught in school. Tiff hasn't missed a word yet this year.
This year is the first year that the reading specialist at school has been included in the process. I expect mostly because her tutor is unavailable at this point in time. She has done some sight words at the 4th & 5th grade level with Tiff. They are doing timed readings for fluency. She is working on Tiff's expression when reading, i.e. reading as a question or stopping at periods. And her main goal after that is comprehension. Tiff does well on classwork and the spelling parts. But the comprehension is poor. Those tests she gets D's & E's. So with the intervention and having the reading teacher reread harder questions on tests to Tiff, we are hoping to pull out of her what we think she knows.
Her math test went from a low D on the first test to a high B on the test where the teacher changed the wording on some of the questions.
Hoping that giving her fewer instructions to get the same answer will help.
Did I make it clearer or muddier?
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504
Oct 30, 2006 23:01:12 GMT -5
Post by Charlie Girl on Oct 30, 2006 23:01:12 GMT -5
Uni, who did the testing? Schools won't test for dyslexia. Many schools won't even recognize it as a disability and you have to slip into an IEP another way.
If she started with a reading tutor at the end of 1st grade and is really far behind in 3rd, I agree with Lillian. It sounds like an Ld to me. I'm not an expert but the fact that she spells so well makes me wonder if it is something other than dyslexia.
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504
Oct 31, 2006 9:51:34 GMT -5
Post by unicorn-tiff'smom on Oct 31, 2006 9:51:34 GMT -5
I did outside testing with a psychologist who specializes in ADHD and LD's. She is the one that said we were only dealing with the ADHD, no LD's.
I don't think she is that far behind. The sight words she is working on are 1-2 grade levels above 3rd. The spelling and decoding are good. She can read well. It is the whole reading, comprehending and then answering the comprehension questions that is the issue now.
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504
Oct 31, 2006 10:00:33 GMT -5
Post by lillian on Oct 31, 2006 10:00:33 GMT -5
Has she had difficulties decoding in the past? If she has, this might explain her current problems with comprehension. If she's had problems with decoding, she may be a remediated reader, who is still focusing on the word, not the sentence as a whole. My advice is to read, read, and read with her. When she is reading a book at home, have two copies of the book. Let her read a paragraph, then you read a paragraph, etc. Ask her questions, as you go along and try to get into some interesting conversations about what she is reading.
Congrats to Tiff! It sounds like she has really put in some overtime to improve her skills, which can be very difficult for an ADHD child her age to do. That's great!
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504
Nov 1, 2006 13:48:06 GMT -5
Post by Charlie Girl on Nov 1, 2006 13:48:06 GMT -5
I did outside testing with a psychologist who specializes in ADHD and LD's. She is the one that said we were only dealing with the ADHD, no LD's. I don't think she is that far behind. The sight words she is working on are 1-2 grade levels above 3rd. The spelling and decoding are good. She can read well. It is the whole reading, comprehending and then answering the comprehension questions that is the issue now. I can sympathize with her there. I have had trouble with that myself to the point where I dropped a college class that fascinated me because I just couldn't get it all together enough for it to stick with me, and at that point no one knew I had ADHD let alone tried to help me learn how to learn. I am so glad you are getting her the help she needs now. I wish every kid could have a parent as willing to do what they could to enable their child as you.
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504
Nov 1, 2006 14:38:37 GMT -5
Post by unicorn-tiff'smom on Nov 1, 2006 14:38:37 GMT -5
As you have figured out, I will do anything I can to help her be successful in school, not struggle and not let these issues make her give up her love to learn new facts.
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504
Nov 6, 2006 14:02:20 GMT -5
Post by katiekat on Nov 6, 2006 14:02:20 GMT -5
Had my conferences-at least one of them went well.Of course it was not Sean's. It does seem that they are really working with him now but when I asked if there was improvement in the past month teacher said no. In fact she said if today was not my conf. she would have had to call me because of his behavior today. He needed to be removed from art class for kicking and separated from the class several times. They have the class aide working closely with him and also some"props" to remind him of what he should be focusing on. She said they are mainly working on behavior now but closely monitoring academics. She is making him an alphabet book to help him with letters and said he is doing well with sounding out words.However his behavior really impedes his learning. Everything she said is consistent with what I see at home and what I work on with him here. I know he can't help some of it but sometimes I just get so aggravated with his out of control behavior and not taking responsibility for it and always blaming someone else.
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504
Nov 7, 2006 13:52:15 GMT -5
Post by lillian on Nov 7, 2006 13:52:15 GMT -5
As they are trying to change some inappropriate behavior at school, it's really important that they also focus on positive behaviors your child already possesses, as well. You want him rewarded for both. This will keep his frustration level down and will make him see that he's not "bad", just in need of changing a few things, like we all are.
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